Sully Baseball Daily Podcast - May 23, 2013

The Giants remind me of the Yankees.

Specifically the current San Francisco Giants remind me of the Joe Torre Yankees of the 1990's and early 2000's.

I make the comparison today on The Sully Baseball Daily Podcast, Remove all the negative associations with the Yankees and bear with me. The analogy makes sense.
 
Jose Bautista, C. J. Wilson, Francisco Liriano and Carlos Gonzalez all owned baseball on May 22, 2013.

To see the up to date tally of "Who Owns Baseball?," click HERE.

Sully Baseball Daily Podcast - May 23, 2013


 

What if Hideki Irabu had signed with the Padres?

Hideki Irabu, one of the fastest throwers in Japanese baseball history and his leagues greatest strikeout artist, died today in Los Angeles County. The first reports say it looks like a suicide.

For a pitcher who has been the butt of many jokes and a Frank Costanza rant, there suddenly is nothing funny about him. Like Donnie Moore before him, a player who was a source of ridicule suddenly became a tragic figure.

In 1997 he was brought to New York as a newly minted millionaire potential hero and given the key to city by Rudy Guiliani and a spot in the defending World Champion Yankees' rotation. 11 years later his credit card was declined in a bar in Japan and he got into a brawl.

And today, trying to find work in an independent minor league, he was found dead.

Sitting at my dining room table, I can't sit and pretend to know all of Irabu's demons. Clearly anyone who could go through with ending their own life has plenty. But it is impossible to avoid the thought that failing on such a grand scale in New York may have contributed to his downfall. Joe Torre had him on the roster for the 1998 and 1999 post season but used him in a single game over 6 series. He pitched in mop up duty for Roger Clemens' dreadful Game 3 start in the 1999 ALCS.

I remember being startled when he came out of the bullpen against the Red Sox that day. I forgot he was even on the team.

He became a symbol of a Steinbrenner move to make a backpage splash and tap into the Japanese market instead of improving the team. (Of course if he delivered, Steinbrenner would have taken the credit of being forward thinking.)

And his debut in 1997 was a solid win where he pitched into the 7th. And remember in 1998, he started off as a very effective pitcher. He was the AL Pitcher of the Month for May, 1998. By mid June of 1998, he was 6-1 with a 1.59 ERA and was a big contributor to the Yankees stellar first half. As late as July 20th he had a terrific record (9-3) and a very good ERA (2.86.) A string of 6 bad starts, plus the emergence of El Duque Hernandez, pushed him out of the post season roster.

But his 1998 could hardly be called a total failure. But 1999 was not a good year for him and by 2000 he was an Expo. By 2002 he was a Ranger, his last season in the majors. He pitched in 2009 for the Long Beach Armada of the Golden Baseball League. Former Padres shortstop Garry Templeton was his manager. His teammate was Jose Lima, who passed away last spring.

I can't help but wonder what would have happened if he played in a smaller market.

The Padres paid the posting fee for Irabu to bring him to America and they owned his signing rights. But, wanting to be on the biggest stage (and have the greatest marketability) he refused to sign with San Diego. He and his agent engineered the trade that sent him to the Bronx.

Had he stayed with the Padres, his fame would not have been as great, but neither would the magnification of his failures. Like the Yankees, the 1997 Padres were coming off a post season berth and had talent.

If he had put up the same numbers with the 1998 Padres as he did with the 1998 Yankees, he would have been beloved by the fans instead of being cursed out.

Remember the '98 Padres were a terrific team that went on to win the National League pennant. They were not as good as the historic 1998 Yankees, but they had a deep lineup and a tough bullpen.

And their fan base is forgiving. Playing for a large passionate fanbase has its disadvantages. Not being able to hide any flaws is one of them. Trevor Hoffman had many high profile critical game blown saves in his career with the Padres. Had he blown those games in New York, Philadelphia or Boston, he would have been run out of town on a rail. In San Diego they are retiring his number.

I wonder if Irabu had pitched in San Diego, if he would have been able to develop and adapt to America better than in New York, where he was expected to be the next Nolan Ryan right out of the gate.

I wonder if Padres fans could have accepted him for what he was instead of tormenting him for what he wasn't. 13 wins and an OK 4.06 ERA mixed in with a pitcher of the month award would get a lot more respect in a smaller market gunning for their second ever pennant.

Maybe he pitches well along side Kevin Brown, Andy Ashby, Sterling Hitchcock and Joey Hamilton. Maybe he fares well against the Yankees in the World Series.

Or maybe his demons were just too strong to conquer. Maybe this has nothing to do with bis baseball career.

But seeing how far he fell makes it impossible to wonder. Did he have to perch himself up so high?

Bruce Bochy - Hall of Famer?

Don't laugh... Bruce Bochy already has a pretty amazing resume as a manager. If he wins 4 more games as a manager this year, it might be time to start whispering his name around Cooperstown.

Don't believe me?
Well first of all he has already padded his resume with some solid credentials.

He took over a Padres team after the 1994/1995 strike/lockout.

Remember the Padres were a team lost in the woods after the 1984 pennant. They went through managers (Larry Bowa... Jack McKeon... Steve Boros... Jim Riggleman) and philosophies (We're all about our deep farm... no wait, we're all about signing free agents like Bruce Hurst and Jack Clark... no we're keeping our prospects... no we're trading them for Joe Carter... no we're trading Joe Carter and Robbie Alomar away...)

In his second season (1996) and just three years removed from the 1993 101 loss firesale debacle, Bruce Bochy had the Padres back in the post season as National League West Champions, beating the defending Division Champion Dodgers on the last day of the season.

We won manager of the year that year.

In his fourth season, 1998, he beat out two 100 win teams in the post season (the Astros and the Braves) and stormed into the second World Series in the history of the franchise. Granted, beating the 114 win Yankees was a BIT too much to ask, but he became a World Series manager.

The Padres dismantled again, running off 5 straight losing seasons and making Bochy's future uncertain. But the Padres and Bochy stuck together and by 2004 they were winners again.

By 2005 he had the Padres back in the playoffs (granted with the single worst post season team I have EVER seen). In 2006 they were legit and had home field advantage in the Division Series as back to back champs.

Only Trevor Hoffman played on all four division winners for Bochy. The turnover of talent from 1996 to 1998 was tremendous... as was the turn over from 2005 to 2006. Bochy remained the steady force.

He came over to the Giants, a team whose philosophy seemed to be "Hey! People are showing up to see Barry... so why bother putting a good team on the field?"

He had nothing to work with, especially after Bonds retired after 2007. But by 2009 they were winners again... and now, counting his two rebuildings in San Diego, has built his third division champion from the ground up.

Manager of the year... turns teams around... multiple playoff trips... pennants with two different franchises...

That sounds like a GREAT manager's resume.
All he is missing is the ring.

If he wins a World Series title this year... and do what teams featuring Mays, McCovey, Marichal, Perry and Bonds could never do... and do it with a cut and paste line up... do it defeating the much heralded Phillies... then what else does he have to prove?

Yes you can point to a sub .500 career record. But also remember that he managed the Padres who had firesales under his watch... and took over a rudderless Giants team that was looking to shake off their Bonds identity.

Bochy could be giving them the identity they've been seeking since they played at Seals Stadium: World Series Champion.

And then the consideration for Cooperstown will need some good long thought.

Did you know there was ANOTHER huge debut tonight?

It's not the same thunderous debut as Strasburg but the Marlins just added a potential impact bat to their lineup in Mike Stanton.

In his first at bat he got an infield single and then scored on a double.

If he becomes a true big league slugger then who knows?
He might make former Braves/Red Sox/Rangers/Yankees/Mets/Nationals/Giants/Reds reliever the OTHER Mike Stanton.

Heck he should come out of retirement just to face Mike Stanton!

Well, the Marlins Mike Stanton needs to win 3 World Series titles and get selected to an All Star team if he wants to have Mike Stanton bragging rights.

I want Ramiro Mendoza to remain the answer to a wonderful trivia question

If Red Sox/Yankees was a category on Jeopardy, an answer could be "He is the only living player with World Series rings as a Yankee and a Red Sox."

And the correct response would be "Who is Ramiro Mendoza?"

Mendoza was a middle reliever on the 1998 and 1999 World Series rosters and in fact was the pitcher on the mound when the Yankees won the 1999 AL Pennant in Fenway Park (one of the few times Joe Torre let a pitcher other than Mariano Rivera finish off a series.) Truth be told, Mendoza should have been the series MVP over El Duque Hernandez, but that's another story.

In 2004, Mendoza was a member of the Red Sox. He pitched in the ALCS against the Yankees and had the dishonor of getting the loss in the 19-8 Game 3 massacre... it was also the last loss the 2004 Red Sox would have as they won the last 4 of the ALCS and all 4 games of the World Series.

That was it. The Babe Ruths and Carl Mays and all the other former Red Sox champs who were sold to the Yankees are all dead.

Mendoza remains alone.

But this year, two names threaten to join him.

Johnny Damon and Eric Hinske.

































Damon everyone remembers (and some have forgiven.)

Hinske, lest we forget, was a seldom used pinch hitter on the 2007 Red Sox and is now a seldom used pinch hitter on the 2009 Yankees. But he was on the Division Series roster and is now on the World Series roster.

And last year, Hinske was a member of the Rays and struck out to end the series (and was then analyzed by my wife.)

I have nothing against Damon or Hinske and I appreciate all they did in a Red Sox uniform...

But I hope in a few weeks the answer to that trivia question remains simply "Ramiro Mendoza."

It's not exactly "Win one for the Gipper"

Win one for Steinbrenner!

That's the rallying cry?

That's the Yankee's answer to winning a game for Brian Piccolo?

In the past the Yankees were inspired by Frank Torre's heart transplant (1996), Darryl Strawberry's cancer (1998), Paul O'Neill and Luis Sojo's dad (1999) and of course all of New York in the wake of September 11 (2001.)

Now it comes down to "Hey, the checks this guy has written have cleared so far... maybe we should win."

I'm not saying it isn't good motivation... just don't expect the rest of us to get choked up that George FINALLY won his 7th title.

How much suffering can there be in San Diego?

With the Red Sox fans cup now running over with post curse glee, the White Sox winners in 2005 and the possibility of (God save us) a Cubs World Series title, we may need to look for new fan bases to be the quick personification of long suffering yet loyal fans.

The staff here at Sully Baseball have been fascinated this year with fan bases whose suffering has been underrated. We analyzed Seattle, Cleveland, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and Washington's suffering over the course of this year.

Which brings us to San Diego and their fans.

The Padres swept the Nationals this weekend. I don't think they are exactly dancing in the streets of San Diego.

After making the playoffs in 2005 and 2006 and playing a heart breaking extra innings 1 game playoff last year, I'm sure expectations in Padre-land were higher than "Sweep the Nationals and avoid losing 100 games" for 2007.

But here we are.
More heartache for a city that has seen its share of disappointment and "what could have been" moments.

However I am having a hard time lumping the Padres and their fans with what we Red Sox fans went through and what the Mariners, Phillies, Pirates, Indians, Cubs and even Nationals fans go through.

Part of the emotion of a cruel October is going through the long harsh winter, couped up inside, replaying the events over and over again while grumbling "Why did he keep bringing in Schraldi?"

The weather becomes the visual reminder of how cold and empty you feel.

In San Diego, while images of Matt Holiday dance in your head, you go outside, the sun is shining, the birds are chirping, the waves are crashing against the beach...

How bad can life be?

Let me tell you what I mean...
When the Padres lose in October, the fans spend a winter that looks like this.









When the Indians lose, the winter looks like this.










See the difference?

But I suppose I sound like a Northeastern snob right now... a Northeastern snob living in Southern California.

So let's be fair and break down why Padre fans have a right to suffer:

1. They've never won.
Next year will be the 40th anniversary of the Padres first game. They are no longer a new team... 4 decades without a World Series title is a lot.

The ending of The Kid From Left Field is the only chance that a Padres fan has to see his team win a World Series.

2. They nearly lost them to Washington
After only 5 seasons (which included 3 100 loss seasons, 1 99 loss season and 1 95 loss season) the Padres almost moved to DC. They stayed and awarded their fans with a 102 loss season.

3. Hall of Famers and Cy Young winners equal one winning season
The late 1970s saw the rise of future Hall of Famers Dave Winfield and Ozzie Smith, a Cy Young season from one future Hall of Famer Gaylord Perry plus one for Randy Jones and the signing of yet another future Hall of Famer Rollie Fingers.

This amazing wealthspring of talent led to a grand total of one winning season.

4. Bad timing in 1984

The Padres bring aboard another future Hall of Famer in Rich Gossage, have a future Hall of Fame manager in Dick Williams, develop their own Cooperstown bound star in Tony Gwynn and import stars like Graig Nettles and Steve Garvey and finally make the playoffs. They stun the Cubs in a series where everyone on the planet was expecting to go to Chicago and win the first ever pennant for San Diego.

Their reward was playing a Detroit Tigers team that was possessed and could not be stopped by anyone. The Padres played tough but ultimately lost in 5 games. The 1984 Padres team would have crushed the 1983 Orioles or the 1985 Royals... but the luck of the draw got them Detroit.

5. Big signings equal no wins
There was a time that the Padres were players in the free agent market and big priced players like Bruce Hurst and Jack Clark would play in the Murph. It didn't matter as the Padres didn't contend for more than a decade after 1984.

6. Brown and Yellow Uniforms.
Seriously... these were pretty horrible.












7. The quick exit in 1996

The Padres stunned the Dodgers to win the NL West on the last weekend of the season and in the process avoided the heavily favored Braves in the first round.

They went on to play the Cardinals in the Division Series.

In game 1, Joey Hamilton let up a first inning 2 out 3 run homer to Gary Gaetti... then he would settle down. But it was too late. The Cardinals won 3-1.

In game 2, a wild underrated back and forth game, a wild pitch by Doug Bochtler allowed the go ahead run to move to third in the 8th inning. The run would score on a ground out and the Padres lost by 1.

In game 3, former Red Sox Jody Reed drove in 2 runs and the Padres took a 4-1 lead. But Ron Gant drove in 2 himself and the Cardinals went ahead 5-4. The late Ken Caminiti tied the game with a dramatic 8th inning homer, but Trevor Hoffman did what he does best... lose games in October. He let up Brian Jordan's 1 out 2 run shot in the 9th to give the Cardinals the lead for good. The Padres were swept even though they had a shot in each game.

8. The Bad Timing of 1998

The Padres had their greatest year in 1998. They won 98 on route to another division title. But they had to defeat Randy Johnson and the 102 win Astros in the Division Series... which they did. Then they had to defeat the heavily favored 106 win Atlanta Braves team in the NLCS... which they did.

Their reward was to play the 114 win New York Yankees, one of the most complete teams in baseball history. Like 1984, the Padres faced a juggernaut in the World Series.

That being said, the Padres seemed poised to pull off one of the great upsets in baseball history. Greg Vaughn homered twice and Tony Gwynn homered as well in game 1 giving staff ace Kevin Brown a 5-2 lead to work with. Brown cruised until the 7th inning when a single and a walk brought the tying run to the plate. Instead of sticking with his ace, Bochy brought in Donne Wall, who promptly let up a game tying homer to Chuck Knoblauch. The Yankees continued to rally and had the bases loaded and one out when Mark Langston faced Tino Martinez. With the count 2-2 and 2 outs and the game still tied, Langston threw a pitch down the heart of the plate about belt high.

It was called "ball 3." I remember thinking it was such a perfect pitch that I literally don't know what the ump saw. It was either high, low, outside or inside... I'm not sure.

Langston threw another pitch down the heart of the plate and Tino crushed a grandslam that gave the Yankees the lead they would never look back from.

The Padres had another chance to get into the Series in game 3. Up 3-2 in the 8th, knowing that a victory would give Kevin Brown a chance to tie the series in game 4, Trevor Hoffman let up Scott Brosius's towering 3 run shot to centerfield to give the Yankees the lead. They would win game 4 convincingly and yet another quick exit that was closer than you'd think was in the books for the Padres.

9. The Title of Worst Playoff Team Ever

On the last Monday of the 2005 season, Trevor Hoffman blew a save (detecting a pattern here?) to the Giants that dropped them 2 games under .500. Were they playing out the string of a disappointing season? No, they were trying to clinch at least a tie for the Division title. Despite being sub .500, they had a 3 game lead over the 74-82 Giants. The Padres needed a 4 game winning streak the last week of the season and a win the last day of the year to pull them over .500, which was enough for the NL West crown. Until a .500 team or worse wins the division, the Padres will always have "the worst playoff team ever." (No drama in October, the Cardinals swept them again.)

10. Lost Opportunity of 2006

The best ever chance for a Padres World Series title was in 2006 when they looked like a legit pennant winner going into the playoffs against a battered and injured Cardinals team. But the Padres couldn't hit a lick... they scored 6 runs total over the 4 game series, giving the seemingly dead Cardinals reason to believe. The Cardinals went on the win the World Series, the 2006 Padres have already been forgotten.

11. 2007... oof

In early September, the Padres were in first place and ready to have home field advantage in the first round. Throughout September they hovered a game or 2 behind Arizona for the best record in the NL. An out away from clinching their third straight playoff spot, Trevor Hoffman (him again?) gave up the cruelest and most ironic game tying hit to Tony Gwynn Jr. The Padres would lose their last two games and set up the show stopping one game playoff where Trevor Hoffman (SURPRISE!) couldn't hold a 2 run lead. And no, Matt Holiday never touched the plate.

That's a lot of angst.
That's a lot of moments to digest without the memory of a celebration to relieve the agita.

And that isn't even factoring in the Chargers!

But I have a hard time imagining the winter being long a cruel when it is beautiful and mild.

So how about it, Padres fans?

Am I crazy?

Everyone at Gaslamp Ball, do you think you are among the longest suffering fans?

Does the Friar Nation think I am full of it by degrading your pain because of the weather?


Trevor Hoffman does not belong in the Hall... and Pennant Fever agrees with me. What do YOU think, Duck Snorts?


Hey Petco Park Insider, is there enough passion for the Padres to develop legitimate angst or is everyone just thinking about the Chargers?

Well either way, if you are going to suffer with a team, it seems like a nice place to suffer.